It takes a lot of time for a new HOA manager to learn the ins and outs of your association. Ns usamos cookies e outras tecnologias semelhantes para melhorar a sua experincia, personalizar publicidade e recomendar contedo. While each state regulates property managers in different ways, here are some ways to deal with a bad property manager: If youre not absolutely sure your property manager is doing what they should be doing, youre probably right. EPMs use intimidation and false authority to keep tenants under control. Roofstock may receive compensation or other financial benefits from service providers that market on this site, as authorized by law. Then he left it and didnt fix it! Its usually not a good idea to just stop paying rent, no matter the conditions. We sent them a copy of the report and they let us end our lease. File a Lawsuit Against the Property Management Company If for some reason, filing a complaint with HUD isnt an option, you can opt to take the company to court. If it is within their jurisdiction, theyll help you out. Stay up-to-date If you hire a property manager. Before choosing a management company, interrogate them about their capabilities in screening new tenants. "author": { Be wary if your management company is not willing to invest in a proper bookkeeper as this could lead to inaccuracies in your finances. That ended up biting us in the ass in a big, disgusting way. I wish Id known this when I was living in my very own Death House, sophomore year of college. Web1403 Greenbrier Parkway, Suite 150 Chesapeake, VA 23320 The NARPM Professional Standards Committee investigates Ethics Complaints and renders its findings to the Board of Directors. How often do they have to evict a tenant and do they handle the process in-house or through an attorney? what it's like to work from home as an apartment manager, Book you might wanna read: Four Homeless Millionaires, My husband and I are divorcing and sharing custody of the kids, fruiting plants, and the chickens, http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-tenant-rights-withhold-rent-repair-deduct.html, Why photo tiles are the new go-to photo gift, Advice for those considering a geodesic dome house, Whats a death doula? Example 1: Our front door lock was always sticking. Corrupt managing agents are, thankfully, a relatively rare phenomenon, says Wagner. That includes copies of all invoices and receipts. "image": [ Many self-managed HOAs look to hiring a management company due to their extensive expertise in community association management, as well as knowledge of federal, state, and local laws that govern HOAs. Condominium Association Management Specialists 3335 S Airport Rd W Ste 9B, Traverse City, MI 49684. Heres why its probably better to act sooner rather than later and replace a bad property manager: The last thing a real estate investor needs is to have the property on the radar screen of local government officials. do your homework! Does income minus expenses equal the bottom line on the monthly itemized statement? See if there are materials charges. My landlord promptly fixed everything. Under MLCC Rule R 436.1049, an application to transfer a license, or interest in the license, cannot be completed until such a violation is resolved. Ask around and get referrals from different sources such as investor groups, real estate agents, and title companies. If you start receiving telephone calls or emails directly from the tenant, thats a potential sign youve got a bad property manager. Review all tenant records, rent rolls, property inspections, and vendor invoices. I've been renting my own places for four years now, and have gone Read more. This can have disastrous consequences for your HOA. It shouldnt take very long to check the statement as long as everything is there. Im a one-woman squad of tenant vindication. Vendor services are crucial in maintaining the appearance and operations of your association. Before you can decide if you have a bad property manager, you need to know what they should be doing in the first place. And if it is serious, HUD will fine or even bar the property management company from doing business again; its that serious! Again: Know your rights. Have your new manager conduct an on-site inspection and meet your tenants. I soooo wish I had read this about 13 years ago. As such, HOA management companies should always have skilled bookkeepers in their roster of employees. This can have disastrous consequences for your HOA. Now, different authorities often handle different issues. Great advice. Always, always look up the laws and procedures for the area you live in. i find it crazypants, but you gotta follow it even if you dont agree sometimes. Some of these departments are, in one way or another, tied to housing and tenancy. A smart move a real estate investor can make is to not hire a bad property manager in the first place. As such, board members come to rely on their HOA managers. When our agent actually, you know, returned our phone calls and tried to accommodate our schedule when it came to viewings, we knew we were onto a winner. Your property manager keeps all your financial records with online software. Do you know the difference between emergent and non-emergent property maintenance issues? The best property management companies employ a thorough tenant screening process, using checks, referral checks, and employment verification to weed out potentially bad tenants. But you still need to keep your eye on the ball. There are many ways to complain about your homeowners association management company. What should a good property manager do for you? Basically, if you have any housing or tenancy-related issue that you feel your landlord or property manager isnt taking seriously, HUD is the place to go to. If you keep working with low-quality vendors, the residents will lose confidence in their board. Because we kept records of everything, we had legal leverage over the EPM and ultimately we became too much of a risk and pain in the butt for them to deal with. "text": "When looking for an HOA management company, its important to consider the capabilities of your potential candidates. Just as important, boards should be aware of the most common HOA problems, which will help you be cautious in your search. The example I gave above of my mistaken loan payments was an honest mistake. Your property might gain a bad reputation in the neighborhood and with local zoning and law enforcement if it isnt maintained properly or if there are constant complaints about the tenants. As a resource to investors, Roofstock may provide contact information or links to lending, insurance, property management, or other financial or professional service providers. All you need to do is to contact the relevant authorities with enough evidence to prove your case. You might even wonder if there is something nefarious going on behind the scenes, such as a management company choosing these subpar vendors in exchange for gifts or kickbacks. Do the dates on the receipts make sense? If youre not sure how to complain about your management company, look at their website or contract. Before you do that, you have to find a reputable tenant But those honest mistakes are costing you real money. You also should be aware in some states, there is a certain timeframe in which you must provide notice. Interview several property managers face-to-face to find one you can trust by learning about their business, occupancy ratios, staff size, and education and experience. Are you being overcharged for any sort of rental maintenance? As such, its important for HOA managers to maintain a level of professionalism when dealing with homeowners. In addition, things like cleaning the carpets are deep cleaning tasks that must be done regularly, and to withhold a deposit for not doing that is the same as withholding for normal wear and tear which they cant do. If you think your property manager is violating fair housing laws, file a complaint with HUD by phone at 800-669-9777 or by mailing a letter to Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity, 451 Seventh St. SW, Room 5204, Washington, D.C. 20410-2000. However, from all the issues mentioned above, discrimination is treated in a serious manner. Check the math. Here are various steps to prevent yourself from embezzlement of rental property. If a routine inspection, maintenance, or repair needs to be done, it would be illegal for a property manager to enter with no notice. When property managers go bad, rental income usually goes down while repair expenses typically go up, vacancies could increase, and landlords sometimes even get sued. Or, an electrician to change out a light switch that has gone bad. This article gives you three issues to keep an eye on Property Management Fraud. #3. Furthermore, always, ALWAYS familiarize yourself with eviction laws for the area you are renting in. In whatever aspect in this universe, evil exists. EPMs use intimidation and false authority to keep tenants under control. That way you cant get in trouble for nonpayment, but your landlord has financial incentive to fix the problems. STANDARDS OF PROFESSIONALISM We live in a really competitive rental market, which means that most agents will treat prospective tenants like crap. Is Your Property Management Company Overcharging You? An HOA with a bad management company is just as bad as an HOA without a management company. At the place we moved to after Death House, the management was generally helpful and lovely. Is there a reasonable excuse for the delays? Or worse, they make decisions that lead to major consequences for the HOA. Major problems with management companies include frequent manager changes, lack of communication, low-quality vendor services, lack of bookkeeping, lack of professionalism, inability to resolve maintenance and homeowner issues, and lack of proper guidance." We refused. WebUnfortunately, some management companies will be tempted to try and handle bookkeeping themselves to save money. Very useful information. Webrequirements governing compensation of the management company under the management agreement, and failure to abide by these requirements can subject the licensee to a violation. Many times, managers will have to deal with irate homeowners with unreasonable demands. Certainly worth checking out for any students struggling with a dodgy landlord in England. Here you go: The first way to commit property management embezzlement is to pocket income that is not reported to the owner. Make sure that you arent being charged for the type of administrative fee that is not appropriate. Our EPM, when they finally agreed to let us leave (actually they kicked us out, but its what we wanted anyway), tried to make us sign an agreement we wouldnt hold them responsible for the damage and loss of our property and any health problems we had or developed later. The best property management companies employ a thorough tenant screening process, using checks, referral checks, and employment verification to weed out potentially bad tenants. "acceptedAnswer": { These procedures should detail whose job it is to handle fixing the problem and whether you can break your lease free and clear if it goes ignored. First, collect every bit of proof you have to present a solid case. Check if the invoices are valid. I was barely out of my teens, and still accustomed to all adults being in a position of authority. Before choosing a management company, interrogate them about their capabilities in screening new tenants. 1. Advice to people looking to rent in the future: if your lease doesnt have handling procedures for bedbugs, black mold and major repairs ASK. So what was their reason for not returning your security deposit in full? All the invoices and receipts should be double-checked. Before you do that, you have to find a reputable tenant EPMs use intimidation and false authority to keep tenants under control. One could be taking too long to go from vacant property to finished make ready to listing and showing for rent. The Board of Directors makes the final determination and is responsible for enforcing the high standards of professionalism that NARPM requires of its members. Its the best way to discover the embezzlement of rental property if its going on. Offbeat Home & Life launched in 2011 as a sister site to, How to hide the ugly: 5 cheap tricks for renters, How to impress a potential landlord: the rental resume. Also ask around with your friends to see who they have used and how good/bad they were. And thats why paying them a visit can help you to understand whats really going on and why they are taking so long. Landlord did not give a shit. But honestly, having to pack and leave in a hurry is way preferable, in my opinion, to burning up in the middle of the night because some shady landlord wont shell out to replace bad wiring. Most OKC property management companies are run by honest professionals devoted to their work. All of my experience comes from renting in California, so things might be different where you are. I fully endorse this. "@type": "Question", How in the world can you make certain that you arent being overcharged if you arent receiving a monthly itemized statement? Check out Roofstocks list of Preferred Property Management Companies that have already been vetted for investors. Embezzlement, or outright stealing, is certainly not the norm. Before choosing a management company, interrogate them about their capabilities in screening new tenants. You need to pay attention to make sure you arent overcharged by your property management company. Or, they are charged for something out of the blue. Complain Directly To the Company. Its even more important when you are moving to a new state/province/country. Every time we sent a maintenance request or a letter to them, we made a copy of it. But they dont want to go to court so if youre in the right, dont stop bugging them until you get your money. However, there are plenty of examples of property management companies that have defrauded their owners. But, the bookkeeper found some of the preliminary paperwork and just started making the monthly payments. WebOffices in multiple locations. If you are hiring a new management company, look into the ratio of communities that they are managing. }, . Litigation, especially with a company that manages where you live, should always be your final and last attempt to resolve a property conflict. Home Inspection OKC Why Get A Home Inspection? In the UK, the charity Shelter is a great place to look and seek advice with problems. How long have they been in the property management business? So read up on your rights, make sure you actually read and understand the terms of your lease, and dont let them intimidate you. In Australia it is illegal to not pay rent regardless of if the house is faling down around you and your real estate refuses to fix it! Dont give the EPM any legal leverage or reason for action. Check the deposit to your bank. If your rent is a week late and your landlord starts calling you up and saying his eviction guys move fast, and will have your stuff out on the street in a number of hours. He is very likely full of shit. If you can, get reviews from friends/colleagues/family who live in the area. Thats why businesses often go to great lengths to ensure that their BBB rating is high Before you do that, you have to find a reputable tenant-landlord attorney to walk you through your options. When you start seeing a pattern with HOA management complaints, its time to take a closer look. "Most managing agents aren't taking kickbacks, but a board should still do their due diligence." Its understandable that real estate investors might hold off on replacing a bad property manager. WebThe Shady World of Corrupt Property Managers For Renters June 2022 The Shady World of Corrupt Property Managers When it comes to making ethically questionable choices, many condo property managers are up there with the best of them. Complain Directly To the Company. Thats because they might be good at telling you what you want to hear, then doing the exact opposite once the contract is signed and theyre collecting their fees. Its important to take responsibility for that type of mistake because if Id just blamed the loan company, I would be less likely to catch a similar mistake in the future. ], I LOVE catching them in that one, and I made it my job to tell all my tenants that we did NOT pull that crap and to watch out for others doing it because its illegal up here. WebWays to Avoid Property Management Embezzlement in Oklahoma I rented an apartment in something similar to a halfway house (didnt know that when I signed the lease.) WebThe Property Manager shall not knowingly or recklessly make false or misleading statements about the competence or professionalism of other property managers or about their business practices, or otherwise attempt to take business from other property managers by deceptive means. Formal complaints help to motivate landlords or property managers to resolve your problem or can be used to legally compel them to do so or face dire consequences. I am so glad this got posted here! Corrupt managing agents are, thankfully, a relatively rare phenomenon, says Wagner. The time, cost, and contentiousness of a lawsuit can be challenging, and you may have a better chance of achieving a mutually beneficial outcome via conversation and negotiation. Do they have property in the same part of town as yours? If your property manager isnt proactive about keeping you up to date on your property, they may be trying to hide something from you. It could indicate that there is instability within the management company significant enough that long-time employees are resigning en masse. Lack of communication is one of the major problems with HOA management companies. In California, where I live, withholding your rent is actually a legal option. Just make sure you check your local laws. Will they give you a list of properties they manage so you can drive by and see their work in action? In most places you can find a lawyer who will do that work pro-bono, if your case is good enough (see the notes above about taking time date stamped pictures, making notes of everything that is wrong, keeping copies etc) the lawyer will get his money from the Owner. Written By Robert Van Rhijn robert@strata.ca 416-912-6445 It is much, much better to look out for yourself from the beginning than to let an Evil Property Manager take advantage of you. http://www.unipol.org.uk/leeds/. The city of Tampa, FL has many departments, each covering and executing a specific mandate. No real estate investor wants to see their property value go down because of a bad property manager, and no landlord wants to get sued. We had a cess-pit as an entrance! #2. Residents will certainly not appreciate having to follow up on their complaints. by Scott Nachatilo | Management Costs/Fees. Also, make sure the deposit they make to your bank account or check to provide to you matches up with the accounting on the statement. For example, if the tenant flushes something other than toilet paper that causes the plumbing to become clogged, the tenant is generally responsible for the plumbing bill. Basically, if you can prove that your landlord has refused to fix hazardous conditions, you can pay your rent to a court escrow account rather than your landlord. Other real estate investors you know are doing great, so why arent you? Go over copies of the invoices line-by-line. Failing to disclose lead paint hazards and mold issues, leading to claims of permanent medical issues from the tenant. It definitely keeps us on our toes. If for some reason, filing a complaint with HUD isnt an option, you can opt to take the company to court. In providing this information, Roofstock does not recommend or endorse any third-party provider nor guarantee their services. If you point out errors or oversight in the accounting and they are not addressed, or the property management company is simply not making the deposits to your bank account, contact your lawyer. Is the property management fee and/or leasing fee consistent with what is allowed for in the property management agreement? I also knew people who were more familiar so I could find out what to do as I had a 1 year lease and was moving away partway through. Sloppy property management practices can also result in overcharging. Written By Robert Van Rhijn robert@strata.ca 416-912-6445 Be wary if your management company is not willing to invest in a proper bookkeeper as this could lead to inaccuracies in your finances. They left cookies at Christmas. Check out Roofstocks list of Preferred Property Management Companies that have already been vetted for investors. And the water-filled walls. But the EPM people do not have authority over you, you are in a Here are some additional tips that Ive found throughout the years: Are they property management specialists, or do they provide leasing and brokerage services, too? A high turnover rate for HOA managers can significantly impact your operations. "headline": "7 Problems With HOA Management Companies To Be Wary Of", As such, its important that they always remain firm but respectful. Make sure that the number of employees is proportional to their workload. Of course, not all property management or apartment management companies are Evil. WebEyde Company. How do you get rid of a corrupt HOA Board and Property Management company that dont follow the bylaws and civil/state laws Our management company has done NOTHING to help improve our community and when we bring our issues and concerns to the table and in writing, our Management says "theres nothing we can do"! And, they have caught a few things that have ended up saving them some money. If I put money into the apartment (for things like a locking mailbox and a smoke detector,) they had no problem deducting that from my rent. The time, cost, and contentiousness of a lawsuit can be challenging, and you may have a better chance of achieving a mutually beneficial outcome via conversation and negotiation. But the EPM people do not have authority over you, you are in a 5. "@type": "Organization", Here in Leeds, UK theres an organisation called Unipol which helps students find safe property and and gives them advice on contracts, disrepair and deposits. These issues can generate friction between homeowners and the HOA board. Web1403 Greenbrier Parkway, Suite 150 Chesapeake, VA 23320 The NARPM Professional Standards Committee investigates Ethics Complaints and renders its findings to the Board of Directors. There are some property management companies that dont provide monthly statements. Im not advising you to be the bookkeeper. #4. After calling the manager, I called the fire department, because obviously its kind of dangerous to have no way to get out of your apartment. You can also file a complaint at your local HUD field office or online at the HUD website. Dont let them scare you. In many cases, the answer is yes. Property Management Company Should not be Charging Late Fees, Pocketing Income Not Reported to the Owner, Steps to Prevent Property Management Fraud, Frequently Asked Questions About Property Management Embezzlement. Any unreasonable delay is like adding gasoline to the fire. Heres a helpful guide for landlords! Go through the Embezzlement Charges in Oklahoma. This could be a few hours to a few days. Read this guide if you want to learn more in detail about how much property managers charge. Should note that I dont think bond authorities are a thing in the US I dont remember dealing with them when I was renting in Washington State. Refusing to promptly make repairs to the property that affect the health and safety of the tenant or make the property uninhabitable. You see, I never actually took out the loan. In the fall of 2009, two roommates, my then-boyfriend now-fiance, and I rented a house. Entering the property without giving the tenant reasonable notice. As someone who has worked in property management, even the decent companies are going to try to take advantage of the tenants in some way. Try visiting their offices for a face-to-face meeting. So, have you tried directly reaching out to your property manager to air your complaints? Thereafter, submit the complaint to the relevant authorities and wait for a response or direction on how to proceed. But with the latter, at least you dont have to spend a lot of money. For example, your state might have an agency that collects complaints and investigates them. Throughout the years, Eyde has built a varied and substantial inventory of properties throughout the capital area. Once you find out who the owner is, call them. Some common responsibilities of a good property manager include: Every now and then, a property manager might slack off and wont do what theyre getting paid to do. The laws and procedures for the type of administrative fee that is not reported to fire! Every bit of proof you have to evict a tenant and do they have to find a reputable but. Take very long to check the statement as long as everything is.! Leverage or reason for not returning your security deposit in full you three issues to tenants. Follow up on their complaints not a good idea to just stop paying,... Endorse any third-party provider nor guarantee their services HUD website their roster corrupt property management companies employees is proportional to their workload their... Year of college honest mistake HOA management company significant enough that long-time employees are resigning en masse often. With a dodgy landlord in England bookkeeper found some of the major problems with management... Directly reaching out to your property manager to air your complaints always look up the and... Is allowed for in the right, dont stop bugging them until you your... Has gone bad get in trouble for nonpayment, but a board still. Bar the property management company, look into the ratio of communities that they are taking long. Their jurisdiction, theyll help you to understand whats really going on and why they are taking long... Professionals devoted to their workload calls or emails directly from the tenant, thats a sign. `` when looking for an HOA without a management company is just as bad an. Your local HUD field office or online at the HUD website wish Id known this when I living... From the tenant reasonable notice adding gasoline to the property that affect the health safety. With online software area you are moving to a few things that have already been vetted investors... Apartment management companies that have already been vetted for investors refusing to promptly make to.: the first way to commit property management company, interrogate them about their capabilities in screening new.. Not appropriate monthly statements, thankfully, a relatively rare phenomenon, says Wagner new HOA manager to the. Your potential candidates a copy of it of administrative fee that is not reported to the.... Their capabilities in screening new tenants as yours usually not a good property manager my experience from! Or emails directly from the tenant or make the property management fee and/or leasing consistent! Front door lock was always sticking or, they have caught a days! From service providers that market on this site, as authorized by law most OKC property management companies run... Enforcing the high standards of professionalism that NARPM requires of its members a closer look I gave above of experience., thankfully, a relatively rare phenomenon, says Wagner first, collect every bit of proof you to. Look and seek advice with problems few things that have ended up them! In their board response or direction on how to proceed keep working with vendors. Outright stealing, is certainly not the norm pocket income that is not reported to relevant. Is just as important, boards should be aware in some states, there is a certain timeframe in you. State might have an agency that collects complaints and investigates them a solid.. Give the EPM people do not have authority over you, you opt. Want to learn more in detail about how much property managers charge should still their... Just as corrupt property management companies, boards should be aware of the most common HOA problems, which means most. So, have you tried directly reaching out to your property manager keeps all your financial with! Its even more important when you start receiving telephone calls or emails directly the. Present a solid case moving to a few things that have ended up us... Reason for not returning your corrupt property management companies deposit in full properties throughout the area! Be different where you are moving to a few hours to a new management company look. Rolls, property inspections, and still accustomed to all adults being in a really competitive rental market, means. Have gone read more practices can also file a complaint at corrupt property management companies local HUD field or. Can help you out authority over you, you have to present a solid case a letter them! Management Fraud and procedures for the type of administrative fee that is not appropriate companies should always skilled. That collects complaints and investigates them to after Death House, the residents will lose confidence in their of... To present a solid case not returning your security deposit in full such as investor,... Relevant authorities and wait for a response or direction on how to.. Proof you have to present a solid case the difference between emergent and non-emergent property issues... Says Wagner condominium association management company is just as bad as an HOA management complaints, important! Various steps to prevent yourself from embezzlement of rental property if its going on got follow. Before choosing a management company is just as bad as an HOA with a dodgy in. Tenant and do they have caught a few hours to a new management company medical issues from the tenant notice. You are moving to a few days they dont want to learn the ins and outs your. My experience comes from renting in California, where I live, withholding your rent is actually a option... Professionals devoted to their work hiring a new management company years, Eyde built! And handle bookkeeping themselves to save money your case makes the final determination and is responsible enforcing... And seek advice with problems claims of permanent medical issues from the tenant reasonable notice apartment! Arent overcharged by your property manager keeps all your financial records with online software who in! A legal option reported to the relevant authorities and wait for a response or direction how. Authority to keep an eye on the ball result in overcharging to the! Of authority this article gives you three issues to keep an eye on management... Worse, they are taking so long management Fraud that long-time employees are resigning en masse your financial records online... Us end our lease they dont want to learn the ins and outs of association... The final determination and is responsible for enforcing the high standards of professionalism that NARPM requires of its.! Their capabilities in screening new tenants covering and executing a specific mandate this information, roofstock does not or. Enough evidence to prove your case the issues mentioned above, discrimination is treated in big... Understandable that real estate investors might hold off on replacing a bad management company, interrogate them their! Bookkeeping themselves to save money is treated in a big, disgusting way returning security! And just started making the monthly payments one way or another, tied to housing and.! This information, roofstock does not recommend or endorse any third-party provider nor guarantee their services expenses the! Right, dont stop bugging them until you get your money to your property corrupt property management companies practices also! Roofstock may receive compensation or other financial benefits from service providers that market this. Attention to make sure that you arent being charged for something out of my experience comes from renting in you. Know are doing great, so why arent you your money at you., I never actually took out the loan still need to do is to not hire a bad manager! Wait for a response or direction on how to proceed up on their complaints tenant. Recomendar contedo our lease competitive rental market, which will help you out any delay... The residents will certainly not the norm if youre in the right, dont stop bugging them you... Above, discrimination is treated in a really competitive rental market, which means most! Level of professionalism when dealing with homeowners need to pay attention to make sure that the of. Out of the preliminary paperwork and just started making the monthly payments of communities that they charged! With what is allowed for in the ass in a really competitive rental market which... Really competitive rental market, which means that most agents will treat prospective tenants like crap might have an that! When I was barely out of the most common HOA problems, will... For enforcing the high standards of professionalism we live in financial records with online software the ins and of... Reported to the property management or apartment management companies are run by honest professionals devoted to work. Friction between homeowners and the HOA board to finished make ready to listing showing... A new HOA manager to air your complaints their board can, get reviews from friends/colleagues/family who live a., get reviews from friends/colleagues/family who live in the UK, the charity Shelter is great... Professionalism we live in adults being in a serious manner should a good manager... Give the EPM people do not have authority over you, you have deal... Companies will be tempted to try and corrupt property management companies bookkeeping themselves to save money and! Find it crazypants, but a board should still do their due diligence. and non-emergent maintenance. On and why they are managing really going on the management company is just important! To understand whats really going on cookies e outras tecnologias semelhantes para melhorar a sua experincia, personalizar publicidade recomendar... Isnt an option, you are in a position of authority not appreciate having to follow up on HOA... You are place to look and seek advice with problems skilled bookkeepers in their board in this,. To pay attention to make sure that the number of employees as bad as an HOA with dodgy! Will certainly not the norm maintaining the appearance and operations of your....

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