But Greg Spencer had been going blind due to macular degeneration. The response we get is to say "Well what you have to do is you have to compare explanations and see which one's the best" and it's like "Right! "Only 15 percent, according to the polling that I did, believe that miracles cannot happen today," Strobel said. It involves Barbara Snyder and took place nearly 30 years ago. We use cookies to better understand website visitors, for advertising, and to offer you a better experience. #media. It was from a different Congo so the person who did that doesn't know their geography. And Coco [inaudible] prayed and Terese started breathing again and the next day she was fine. my peers call to work on behalf of all of our institutions.. So sometimes we don't see the outcome. It's not just about the priors, it's the fact that to be consistent, once you raise your prior for one sort of claim you're doing it for many others -- many claims that you probably don't want to accept. And he said because these precious people that never had a chance to be exposed to God's extravagant love, He works in extravagant ways to let them know. And each of us have different tasks. But even with miracles, life expectancy is higher here than in Africa. She graduated from the University of Chicago School of Law, where she served as executive editor of the law review. episode: Is there medical evidence for miracles? Following her M.S. So she basically pulls the tube out of her throat, says, Go find my parents [and] jumps out of bed.. But God often heals us here and yet when he does it we don't always recognize that it is God because of our world view here. Certainly months in the case of severe atrophy over the course of years. We wouldn't conclude that these things actually happened as reported, especially given the gaps in the timelines. She was doing her work in history. Craig Keener: Yeah. In particular, it includes an interview with Barbara Snyder, who was instantaneously healed from advanced multiple sclerosis, as also attested by her two physicians. It isn't irrational to demand a higher-than-average standard for extraordinary claims, no matter what. Snyder ended up in hospice care with a no-resuscitation order; she was nearly blind, her hands and body were curled and she had a tube in her throat to help her breath as well as a tube in her stomach to ensure proper nourishment. James is right that the evidence on a lot of these cases is really really bad. But after a while it just becomes so overwhelming, but I said, "You know, I'm too skeptical myself. Nathan: I think what we're seeing here are the fruits of apologetics in some ways. Some initial thoughts Time stamp 4:47 James is right that the evidence on a lot of these cases is really really bad. She never quotes her doctors about her condition, and provides no documentation whatsoever -- there is simply nothing to work with. He has a Ph.D. and M.A. Because God told him the coming one was going to baptize in fire. She wanted to be with her family even though there was a war going on. So that's why Christianity featured that part. How has the book been received, both in Christian circles and then outside Christian circles? Yeah, I think of my friend Nabeel Qureshi. They're meant to be signs of the Kingdom. #unbelievable So I guess, what surprised you the most as a result of your study from when you set out to do this to when you got to the end? A noted Christian scholar and ethicist, Scott is the author of such books as Moral Choices: An Introduction to Ethics; Business for the Common Good; and Beyond Integrity: A Judeo-Christian Approach to Business Ethics. "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. Now, I know you can read headlines so you know this was a study of proximal intercessory prayer, but the point is even if you assess the details of the study divorced from knowledge of what the intervention is, it should be obvious that this study tells us nothing. Also we need to know what happens when there is no treatment as a control. This is like the difference between theists asking skeptics to explain how the disciples ate fish with Jesus, when in reality what we have to explain is that we have a text that has a story where the disciples ate fish with Jesus. "Barbara Snyder was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic with multiple sclerosis. A question also came out that if the scientific standard seems too high for these theists, in which discipline would the standard not be too high? The fact that the best theists can come up with are so readily handled should be a caution to anyone trusting their claims. They're not replicable but if there's a pattern like nine times out of ten where this happens it's in the context of prayer, that should say something. And the third thing she noticed was she was see it with her eyes. Craig Keener: Yeah, and part of it was inherited through my academic training. What problems are you interested in? February 4, 2019 8. However, after analyzing several miracles Strobel is convinced they are. [4], Following the announcement that Gordon Gee would retire as President of the Ohio State University effective July 1, 2013, speculation arose that Snyder, the former Provost and Executive Vice President of Ohio State, could succeed Gee. A comparison of base-rates is needed and Keener doesn't seem to care about this when it comes to miracles. And why aren't there miracle claims of people spontaneously generating electricity? We therefore have to design our investigation to reduce these biases and rule out other possible causes. Strobel said that he has long believed that Jesus performed the miracles described in the Gospels. [3] Before Snyder became president of CWRU in July 2007, she was formerly the executive vice president and provost of Ohio State University. Brian: Well actually I think you can do a bit better than that by using essentially the case studies to say, okay, these are the sorts of situations where we would expect miracles to happen and what types of miracles we might see , sometimes we have things that go into remission so how do we rule that out, we have to come up with some kind of randomized control study in order to test miracles. I would add that most of these people are praying most of the time, so it's kind of like looking for astrological causes behind earthquakes -- since earthquakes happen all the time, you can always find one preceding or succeeding any other event you want. We're talking about a lot of evidence. Kamil makes the interesting point that the testimonies of different religions only reflect what that particular religion has as a theological component. And I think with a little imagination one can probably control for things like spontaneous remission and background effects and even some of the kind of unknown effects by a suitably designed experiment. Scott Rae: Sounds like an amazing story. The study mentioned by Strobel in the video above, and the one I mention in relation to healings of deafness and blindness and how it compares (very favorably) to hypnosis studies, The following is a section from Strobels book that references some of the gold standard scientific studies that show the effectiveness of prayer, which I briefly mentioned in the podcast. No one in medicine evaluates the effectiveness of a treatment from case studies alone, or even primarily due to case studies. It just really annoys me this is always conflated. Anyway, so it's the story of how we got together. But in some places Like I had a student from India, a doctor of ministry student, who said almost everybody that he prays for in India gets healed. When I've heard the murderer analogy it is to argue against Hume's uniform human experience against miracles, because someone could argue for the murderer by claiming it is against his uniform experience to murder someone -- he's never murdered anyone before. Craig Keener: Well I tried to get accounts from all over the world. AfghanistanWhere Faith Is a Matter of Life and Death. He had asthma all his life. The latest breaking Christian news you need to know about as soon as it happens. Somebody we know, actually there were two people we know, who are witnesses of that one. Prior to that, she served as president of Case Western Reserve University from 2007 to 2020, where she encouraged interdisciplinary excellence, catalyzed institutional collaboration, and reinvigorated alumni engagement and fundraising. Her feet and fingers were suddenly straight and normal again. The 1974 measurement is 20/100 compared to legally blind at 20/200 (uncorrected) which is still quite poor and far from being "restored", but still a large improvement from her measured 7/200 mentioned earlier. It's not enough to show an effect that's really rare, maybe that's your first motivation, like "oh wow, this is a weird case. such profound challenges across so many fronts, I felt an obligation to answer If someone says a treatment works, even at the 1% level, it is tested carefully to see if it works -- especially if there are no obvious side effects. Craig thanks so much for being with us. Elijah: they can verify that before and afterwards and i'm not sure it's rational to call those uh uh just coincidences like you're assuming some type of causality there um and i i think if you even allow for the possibility of something like the christian god to exist then um you've got to take seriously that it could be his action and then make an inference to the best explanation and where i think the voice of science comes in the best is in eliminating hypotheses not necessarily proving that's his voice and so you can go back and go well there's seven different hypotheses science can help us before eliminating some and then we've got two or three and we've got to critically think and go what do i think's most likely the case and i think that's the human situation and we make that call all the time we make it in court. The situation was pretty hopelessuntil something quite shocking happened. And even after CPR is stopped, there is an observed phenomenon of spontaneous recovery of heart activity after as much as 15 minutes, and his recovered after 10 minutes. You can see why these stories are powerful and you can see why people really get motivated by them nd so i think it is important to respond to them because of that. This is totally expected on naturalism, but not expected under theism. patient on hospice healed by Jesus. It's not something to feel badly about. or perhaps it resolved in 2 years, and they never checked for a long time, only checking right after the prayer 16 years later. 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